It can't be nostalgia, was DBZ as bad as Super is?

by NakedGun on November 23rd, 2016, 11:05 pm
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by NakedGun on November 23rd, 2016, 11:05 pm

It can't be nostalgia, was DBZ as bad as Super is? Super is pretty terrible.

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by IriaChan on November 24th, 2016, 1:08 am

I think Super's pretty good. At first I didn't like it, but it's won me over. But I also really loved DBGT and everyone hated that, so maybe my opinions invalid. Only gripe I have with Super is all the hair color additions and the artwork. The manga is sorta different and the art's better.. but meh.

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by NakedGun on November 24th, 2016, 12:24 pm

Character art definitely feels a bit off and they're going in a different direction overall as well which isn't true to the original DB style. Story is all over the place and full of holes as well. I remember Z being a lot better. Super has its moments but there aren't many.

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by IriaChan on November 24th, 2016, 1:17 pm

Over in the west people use DBZ as the standard. But I don't. I thought DBZ was actually a really bad crystallization of one part of Dragon Ball. It's a perversion on the fighting element of a much more complete and well rounded series. It's why most hate DBGT but I consider it slightly truer to Dragon Ball than DBZ was. Some of DB super for me feels more "Dragon ball" than DBZ does for me. But I still agree with the plot issues. I'm upset when they create bullshit hack job story randomly just to quickly explain something.. like recently with the potara fusion... WHY are we changing the way the potara works just for the sake of a 2 min Vegeto cameo? It's frustrating. Last time I checked, Vegeto broke down due to Buu digesting him... but now they're all "It only lasts an hour if you aren't a kiaoshin".. fuck outta here with that shit. Gonna go back and erase like 20 years of understanding in the fan base just for a fan service cameo moment? I can't remember when else, but Super's done that a few times. And I know people were upset with DBZ's drawn out moments where it takes someone 4 episodes to power up.. but Super feels so sped up there's not enough time to get really invested in the plot. The Trunks VS Zamasu/Black sword thing... liked the scene but it coulda used a little more build up. Everything just HAPPENS. it can be hard to put it into perspective and feel like they're even overcoming anything.

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by Arcadia on November 24th, 2016, 10:52 pm

Super is basically fan fiction.

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by Mitsukashira on November 25th, 2016, 12:23 pm

I agree with Iria to a point. DBZ was a good series until Namek ended. While the first two stories are about nothing other than a fight, it does some fun things to expand on the lore of the series. We get to see what happens when someone dies, and we learn that there are others like Goku out there in the Universe. Once the threat is conquered, we learn that an even greater one looms out there in space somewhere. The story turns into a space exploration tale, and eventually a bitter and dangerous struggle for powerful relics. We learn more about Piccolo's home planet, and that he wasn't merely a demon. Like in reality, this dispels the supernatural with an updated understanding of reality. I think it's fitting. Anyway, the struggle for the Dragonballs on Namek was actually pretty neat. A lot of "covert" maneuvering from Vegeta and the gang, and some decently animated fights. This was also the begining of the turning point in the series artstyle. Personally I preferred the way early DBZ looked when compared to the more linear and angular style it develops later (no doubt to make it easier to animate and draw). I don't feel like DBZ is a standard, or was ever really good, but I do think it has a place in anime history. Part of it is a good anime, but everything after Namek falls super flat.

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by Mitsukashira on November 25th, 2016, 12:30 pm

Another thing. Namek could have been the best ending that the series could have hoped for. We get to understand why Goku is who he is, and the story behind it. On Namek we get to see the legacy of the protagonists race, understand the whole picture, and have the protagonist confront the catalyst that forced him along his path in life. So in about 8-million episodes, we get to see Goku eliminate the only remaining threat to Earth, and also confront the very being that wiped out his people. In a very good-guy way he avenges a tragic figure in Vegeta, and goes on to finally become not just the strongest man on Earth, but also the universe. At the end of his journey, Goku becomes a legendary figure, head and shoulders above the rest.

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by BlackCat on November 25th, 2016, 7:17 pm

i only like the first dragonball

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by DIO on November 29th, 2016, 10:43 am

Super is better than Z because at least in Super Bulma is a main character that does shit besides sit in the background for hundreds of episodes at a time whining.

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by Dylan on November 29th, 2016, 11:15 pm

Dragonball kind of blows in general.

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by JabbaWockeeX on December 2nd, 2016, 1:57 pm

Naruto?

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by Dylan on December 2nd, 2016, 5:59 pm

Arcadia
Super is basically fan fiction.

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How's that real response coming?

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by NakedGun on December 3rd, 2016, 1:30 am

Dylan
Dragonball kind of blows in general.


Be that as it may, it still had a nice action appeal and a good moral message. I liked the general art direction, character art, and the color palette of the show. I always preferred it to the other anime that was on at that time. Although I did enjoy following other shows as well, DBZ left a more memorable imprint in my memory than the others.

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by Mr.Fox on December 3rd, 2016, 4:48 pm

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i only like the first dragonball

I only like the first cat

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by K33L on December 7th, 2016, 5:30 pm

dragon ball super is pretty bad imo, the story, the animation and the bright coloured art style they're using atm, nothing packs a punch

Compare this



with this ...




only goku vs hit was good so far

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by NakedGun on December 7th, 2016, 7:57 pm

That post puts it in perspective, lol. The build up for one single move took 1/4 of total screen time for one episode. Guess DBZ was pretty bad when it came to that aspect.

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by DIO on December 8th, 2016, 6:40 pm

The animation for most of the recent arc for Super got SO much better than what the show had before.

New main villain spoilers
Spoiler: [+]

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by NakedGun on December 8th, 2016, 8:16 pm

Dio, I actually disagree with that. I created this status (now this thread) after they showed the final episode of the Zamasu arc and think that the direction was pretty terrible, especially in the last few episodes.

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by DIO on December 9th, 2016, 3:07 am

The animation DID get better the story not so much. They had a lot less derpy faces for prolonged periods of time. One of the main problems they have is shit happening too fast and less fluid during fights. Characters not moving most of their upper body while firing ki blasts. Not too many grunts so the other characters never get to do anything cool.

I do like the throwbacks to original Dragonball. Goku and Master Roshi training in 2016. Goku meeting Arale multiple times. Android 8 chilling in Antartica.

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by IriaChan on December 10th, 2016, 1:57 am

There were improvements for certain episodes. The reason was that the same key-animator who worked on the films returned as a guest animator. He oversaw a few episodes, but wasn't allowed to contribute as much as he wanted. He expressed interest and disappointment regarding his minimal involvement.. but in subtle ways since, Japanese culture. The politics surrounding the animation game in Japan is pretty ridiculous. Even on the episodes he was a guest on, he wasn't allowed to take full control.

From the sounds of it though, he will not be contributing anymore than he already has.
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